Curse

MithranArkanere · Mar 08, 2010, 03:23 PM // 15:23

I won't mind having monsters that copy player builds.

You enter an area with ice-based monsters and fight with a fire-based elementalists, and after a moth, fire elementalists monsters in another area start using the most used fire builds.

That would be neat. As long as they don't change every time you enter. You can't have a PvE without tactics and being able to predict what monsters will bring.
Enter the area to check what monsters do now, change build and enter again to fight them.
The pint of PvE is being able to win 100% of the time. And with absolute randomness that is impossible in GW. There is no unbeatable build.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 08, 2010, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Well yes, that's also the point in PvP also. Don't you WANT to win every time? It's not always possible, and it will still be possible to win 100% of the time in PvE, it is just harder, and that is the goal I would want to achieve. I would not, nor would anyone else, want it to be impossible, I just want it harder for the sake of having fun. If it takes me a certain amount of time to think of a counter for whats being used in an area, and it turns out that it didn't work and I have to go find another build to try, that's where my fun is. You learn the best from your failures, so when I try to beat an elite area, and it ends up not working out for whatever the reason, it helps you learn what you need to fix about what you're using. I just want there to be more diversity to many team builds people use in PvE. Not just the typical "super damage spike -Imbagon - tank" that most people prefer. I would want there to be a counter for that, so that it doesn't work every time. Stuff like that, I don't know, maybe I'm thinking to ideally, or too outside the box, it would just be nice to see people using many different things.

MithranArkanere · Mar 08, 2010, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Nope. The point in PvP is wining 50% of the time, when both sides have the same skill.
That's balance.

In PvE, losing 50% of the fights it's just frustrating, and monsters do not have skill at all. PvE can't be balanced against NPCs.

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 08, 2010, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Actually, the point of PvP is to win. You don't go into a Guild vs. Guild or Heroes' Ascent match wanting to win only 50% of the time. You want to win every time you play. I think I know what you are trying to say though, it should be balanced where both teams have an equal chance of succeeding. In PvE, sure you want to be able to succeed, but personally I don't think it should be as easy as it is .

gremlin · Mar 08, 2010, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I won't mind having monsters that copy player builds.

You enter an area with ice-based monsters and fight with a fire-based elementalists, and after a moth, fire elementalists monsters in another area start using the most used fire builds.

That would be neat. As long as they don't change every time you enter. You can't have a PvE without tactics and being able to predict what monsters will bring.
Enter the area to check what monsters do now, change build and enter again to fight them.
The pint of PvE is being able to win 100% of the time. And with absolute randomness that is impossible in GW. There is no unbeatable build.

In an ideal version of gw I wouldn't want a random change each time I entered.
The dumb creatures should pretty much stay the same skill wise as these are innate abilities not learned skills.
Whereas the intelligent creatures Charr etc should change tactics and skills when they don't work.

This should happen over time and I guess that's what we will get in some parts of GW2 where player actions make changes in the gameworld.

aspi · Mar 10, 2010, 02:12 PM // 14:12

More interesting is having the option to bring all my heroes not 4 dumb as crap henchmen which I cannot control.
Would also be fine If I can get into the UW or other Elite areas since I am playing alone, and I understand that experienced groups have no interest in doing those areas with me in their team.

The Drunkard · Mar 10, 2010, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I'd love to see this idea implemented but I think that it really won't help GW's stagnation and lack of upcomming campaigns. This should be implemented for GW2 though.

/signed

Amy Awien · Mar 10, 2010, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I won't mind having monsters that copy player builds.

I am not confident that this would give them better builds then they have now.

Turbo Ginsu · Mar 11, 2010, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Well, some do. Mainly in Eye of the North. Mandragors inflict every condition in the book, and spread them to the entire party; Jotun have caster shutdown/melee shutdown along with strong warriors to hit hard. I'm not saying the builds are the greatest, but they synergize very well together.

Mandragor are nothing but toast the moment you give their conditions back to them. Jotun drop like flies the moment you put a little PI on them. Whilst the "attempt" to synergize them is noticeable, against someone with little more brainpower than that of the average pimply 15y/o, that synergy is little more than a joke.

Neo Atomisk · Mar 11, 2010, 12:03 PM // 12:03

in certain areas, yes.
this game NEEDS to be harder.
/signed

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 11, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbo Ginsu

Mandragor are nothing but toast the moment you give their conditions back to them. Jotun drop like flies the moment you put a little PI on them. Whilst the "attempt" to synergize them is noticeable, against someone with little more brainpower than that of the average pimply 15y/o, that synergy is little more than a joke.

You are exactly correct sir

. But that doesn't mean they don't synergize even in the slightest. Sure, they are easily dealt with, but with all of the Eye of the North that I have done, in areas fighting Mandragors, I have never seen anyone with any skills that transfer conditions back to them. So yea, sure they can be sent back, but no one ever uses those skills (Plague Signet, Extend Conditions, etc).

As for the Jotun, yes Pain Inverter generally will do that to anyone, which is why I am not a huge fan of PvE-Only skills, but that is a separate issue. Anyway, that is exactly my point. The fact that "a little PI" or "sending conditions back to them" is a simple enough solution to kill mobs of enemies, shows how easy PvE is, and I do not like playing a game if it is too easy

.

Adine Kara · Mar 12, 2010, 04:57 AM // 04:57

Being a worshiper of Lyssa i LIKE throwing a wrench into things. (and sometimes a wench in too) this would make things interesting ...at least for a while . however once all the builds of the classes were up on Wiki it would only be a matter of time before farm builds were up to counter said builds.

either way i support this idea

enter_the_zone · Mar 12, 2010, 07:28 PM // 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarcryOfTruth

Actually, the point of PvP is to win. You don't go into a Guild vs. Guild or Heroes' Ascent match wanting to win only 50% of the time. You want to win every time you play. I think I know what you are trying to say though, it should be balanced where both teams have an equal chance of succeeding. In PvE, sure you want to be able to succeed, but personally I don't think it should be as easy as it is .

Obviously, the point is to want to win. The expectation in truly balanced PvP should ideally be that you will win about 50% of the time if you are decent. You win some, you loose some, that's the way it goes. Especially as, to loose you have to be outplayed.

In PvE, bring on the steamroller, it would just be annoying struggling against the AI. The novelty would wear off quickly, and it'd be like pugging in prophecies all over again (except the issue there was player builds, not mobs)

WarcryOfTruth · Mar 12, 2010, 07:40 PM // 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

Obviously, the point is to want to win. The expectation in truly balanced PvP should ideally be that you will win about 50% of the time if you are decent. You win some, you loose some, that's the way it goes. Especially as, to loose you have to be outplayed.

Right, that's what I was trying to say, I could not find the words. Thank you for that

. PvP will never be balanced though, they keep nerfing skills because people get upset when they cannot find a counter to a build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

In PvE, bring on the steamroller, it would just be annoying struggling against the AI. The novelty would wear off quickly, and it'd be like pugging in prophecies all over again (except the issue there was player builds, not mobs)

Personally, this isn't how I want PvE. I want it challenging, and to struggle against the AI really draws my interest.

WarcryOfTruth · Apr 10, 2010, 07:53 AM // 07:53

Well, either they planned it anyway or they liked the idea in this thread

. The Peacekeepers each have 3-4 different builds and are moderately tough to kill in normal mode. Have yet to try Hard Mode but when we vanquish I am sure it will be tough

.

robmdq · Apr 10, 2010, 03:55 PM // 15:55

In certain way, a suggestion like this would refresh that old feeling we all had the very first time we ventured into the lands of tyria. I like the idea of a new challenge everytime you zone in.

For that one who said that entering an area without knowing what awaits on the other side, well, that's the whole idea of RPG, if you need to know what's on the other side then maybe RPGs aren't for you.

As for farmng, i don't believe that most people play for farming, thats just plain stupid (sorry, thats the softer word i can use) If you wanna farm, play age of empires and gather wood, doh! Specially ina game like HW where there is no actual reason for farming O_O

So far, i agree with the suggestion. On a second thought, another thing that kill the challenge are the runs, but that topic was discussed ever since the game was released and there wer never a real attitude against them from the devs, so i guess i wont wast nor my time nor the readers time with it, but just wanted to mention it anyways.

Morphy · Apr 10, 2010, 03:58 PM // 15:58

Other singleplayer games are interesting because every monster has different AI. GW monsters all have the same crappy AI. Even if you improve it for all the monsters, it's still the same on every monster, meaning it gets boring after you know exactly what they do. To make PvE interesting, the AI has to be changed for EVERY monster in the game in a way that you always need to adjust your playstyle to it. Since this is pretty much the same as making a completely game, PvE is a lost case.

newbie_of_doom · Apr 10, 2010, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Cool idea but it won't matter, because all you have to do is bring SY.

Reformed · Apr 11, 2010, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

A way to make PvE different: Change it from a format where you kill 100's no 1000's no 100,000's of mobs, to where you have to kill a very few number of challenging mobs.

I agree although Anet doesn't seem to understand the concept of less is more at all. Monsters have gotten progressively better skill bars and group synergy, just take a look at the Charr or Slavers units in EotN. The problem though is that they stick to their tried and true formula of numerical supremacy on top of it. Take a look at the new Peacekeeper units they added...good skill bars and rotating ones at that are a huge plus. Medium to large sized groups with closely overlapping patrols, no Anet no. It is entirely possible to make something hard without forcing us to wade through 100's of foes.

Terrible Surgeon · Apr 11, 2010, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I think everything[baddies] in pve should have skills like blinding surge and rend enchantments on its skill bar. PvE would be awesome then.